Scaling Legal Innovation

Mike Pinkus: Over the last 10 years at ConnectCPA, we've had the privilege of witnessing the incredible journeys of over a thousand businesses. We've been there for the thrilling highs and daunting lows of entrepreneurship. We've celebrated wild successes and monumental exits, and we've also stood by businesses as they've navigated the stormy seas, facing roadblocks and challenges that every entrepreneur encounters in their day-to-day grind.

Join us as we dive deep into the stories of these resilient individuals who dared to dream, who persevered, and who were a testament to the power of entrepreneurship. This is their journey, their lessons, and their triumphs.

Welcome to GrowthTales. I'm your host, Mike Pinkus, co-founder of ConnectCPA.

Today's guest is Daniel Steinberg, who's the founder and CEO at Lawbrokr. Lawbrokr is a SaaS tool that allows law firms to boost web conversions by qualifying leads using their prequalification software.

Mike Pinkus: Prior to starting up Lawbrokr, Daniel already had tremendous experience in the legal tech space, spending over two years at Clio. Amongst as many accolades at Lawbrokr, Daniel was also recently named to The Peak's 2024 Emerging Leaders List.

In this episode, Daniel and I discussed many topics, but some of the main concepts included how to develop your ICP in the early stages of a business, how sales conversations can help define your understanding of what to build in a product, how to leverage your experience from prior roles into your current business, and finally, how to fundraise through challenging market conditions.

I really enjoyed my conversation with Daniel, and I hope you really enjoy this episode.

Hey Daniel, thanks so much for joining me today.

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, thanks for having me, Mike. I'm excited for this.

Mike Pinkus: And, uh, before we jump in, uh, Daniel, I, uh, I want to just— I ask this a lot, but I wanted to know just the origin story of Lawbrokr. How did you get started?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, so it's been a bit of a journey. Um, for me, I actually started in a career in accounting. Uh, that's why we've become such good friends, and, uh, pivoted quickly over to tech, SaaS sales, um, doing advocacy, marketing software and so forth, and fell into the legal world at a company called Clio—uh, one of the largest sort of SMB operating systems for law firms throughout North America, if you haven't heard of it. Um, they focus on law firms all throughout the US and Canada. And I fell into a partnerships role there, working with sort of external third parties—some, you know, accountants and bookkeepers like, you know, you guys—and all the way through to law consultants, IT consultants, and so forth.

And, um, my latter half of my time at Clio, I was actually managing and running the app ecosystem. Um, and I was working with sort of firms of size of Lawbrokr all the way through to companies like Google, Intuit, and Microsoft.

And I was working on a project with Google to help digitize a law firm's online presence, um, and had this realization of how broken, um, the legal system was from a connection point between, like, an uneducated consumer who has never had a chance to work with a law firm before and the law firm directly. And there was this friction point between what that looked like and how they interacted with each other and the complications around it. And I decided I would take the leap of faith and go out on my own, um, to create what is now like a marketing operating system for a law firm.

And, you know, the origin story starts with something completely different. And I'm sure you've had others on this call that have pivoted their business once or twice, but I'm sure we'll go a little bit deeper into that.

Mike Pinkus: That's awesome. And starting in accounting, going into obviously a big legal tech scale, 'cause like Clio's a very big company, right?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, it is. It's, uh, over a thousand employees now. Yeah, I think I started there two-plus— I started four years ago was my first day, and we were 400 employees at the time, so ramped up pretty quickly. I'm not gonna take all the credit for that. Um, but now they're quite the Canadian success story out of Vancouver.

Mike Pinkus: So I just wanted to ask you, is it—do you think it was just luck or serendipity of being in a law company and wanting to stay in that vertical? But what made you want to stay with law? Meaning, like, Clio’s obviously a technology company—you could have started another type of SaaS business that was outside of law. Why did you want to stick to the vertical of law and start Lawbrokr?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, I think it was really opportunistic. It's a super laggard industry, and those that aren't sort of embedded in the legal tech space or legal vertical at all, um, sort of have an outside perspective on the legal space in general. But once you're embedded into it, you really tend to realize that, like, legal governs our society, and everyday, you know, situations are impacted by legalities. And you kind of realize the importance behind the industry, how laggard it is, and how much opportunity for growth there is to really, um, optimize and, like, you know, centralize the way that our legal system is run.

And it just, um, it became so evident and clear and opportunistic that it was something that I wanted to be a part of. And I kind of merged my experiences, um, in my career with advocacy marketing and understanding sort of that world with the Googles of the world and the legal space to bridge what I was doing.

And I think what I've really realized—which I'm sure we'll get into even deeper—but something that's super apparent when you want to become an entrepreneur (and I've wanted to be one my whole life; it was more of a, you know, "when will I become an entrepreneur?" than "if")—but, um, what you realize is having conviction and experiences within a specific vertical really help you become an incredibly strong operator and lead with conviction and be able to tell that story. That's super imperative when starting from net zero, um, for multiple different purposes—whether that's for raising capital, whether that's for interacting with, you know, your first customers—driving conviction as to why you're the right person to even be solving this issue becomes a lot easier on you and a business once you have that education and experience, as opposed to, you know, me not really having, let's call it, B2C experience and jumping into some random, you know, app in the Apple App Store.

Mike Pinkus: And that makes a lot of sense because you're niching. You could always expand in the future. Like you said, you started in accounting—maybe there's applicability to learning how to take a niche like this and then expand it across different verticals. And I guess that brings me to my next question, Daniel: who is your ICP within—like your ideal customer profile—within law? 'Cause there's big law firms like the Torys and Oslers of the world, there's also tons of smaller law firms, which are traditionally partnerships, last-name-on-the-door type of law firms. Who is your ideal profile, and how do you think about strategy over attracting them?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, so our customer profile is really what we would call an SMB law firm or a small business law firm—anyone under a hundred employees as we start right now. So we're still fairly new in the industry, we're two years into the business.

From a strategic perspective, you really want to hone in—that is, like, even niche down more than the current niche that you're in—to be able to solve one problem and then scale and expand from there. So we're really focused on helping, like, a modern law firm that's going up against larger firms create a competitive advantage against those individualistic businesses like the Torys of the world and so forth.

But we're also really focused on transactional legal services—the people that, you know, they're 78% of consumers that are searching on Google for a lawyer because they don't have access to legal services or referrals or, you know, have connections within the space.

Daniel Steinberg: And those people tend to, um, interact more towards the boutique type of law firms that are more hands-on, can provide, you know, free consultations, and support the legal journey a little bit more than, you know, the Seven Sisters here in Canada or, you know, the big firms out in the United States. So we're really focused on that niche area there, especially because the problem that we're solving for is that specific problem, right?

It's about the interaction between—we're the intermediary between—a potential new lead and a law firm, and really optimizing that pre qualification experience to make it simpler on the consumer so that it emulates everyday consumer buying habits that they have. As you think about the larger space and, you know, beyond that hundred-person law firm, they have different marketing issues that you need to solve for that go beyond the scope of what Lawbrokr's doing right now from a front-end perspective.

And as we continue to scale and learn those problems from a strategy perspective, that’s kind of where you expand and evolve to become more of an enterprise product and service—if you have the luxury of getting there.

Just to expand on your last piece there from a strategy perspective and how we go after them—a lot of it is hustle. I think our internal mantra is hustle, right? Work hard, work fast, and really try and get as much client acquisition as possible to support these law firms from a growth perspective.

And a lot of our business is outbound sales. It takes a lot of that before you start to build that brand and start to have brand affinity where people know and trust your business. And we're at the phase of education within the legal space. I don’t think our product is necessarily an educational function across other industries. If we were to, you know, expand beyond professional services, people would say, “That doesn’t sound like a problem that hasn’t been solved before.” But we have to remember that the legal space is super laggard and looking to modernize and commercialize themselves in different ways. And that’s the problem that we’re solving for right now.

Mike Pinkus: And I would say to your point, it's a huge value-add, Daniel. Like, the way you're explaining it and you gave the differentiation between the Seven Sisters firms and smaller firms is—yeah, I would argue that those smaller firms don't have the same financial capabilities or the know-how internally to get to that next leg of lead generation. So it's definitely an issue they need solving. But it does sound like a lot of work on you. So, as a CEO of a company and being in the early stages, how are you dividing your time in that hustle, like you said, to go out and get customers? And how do you spend your time in a day right now?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, I think it's a mixture between team management and company management—between strategy, what our go-to-market strategies are, product overview, and sales.

If I had to bucket myself into, like, the number one category that I focus my time on, it’s bringing in revenue and driving our company forward to continue to have client acquisition. So the divide-and-conquer piece depends, I guess, on time of the month, time of the quarter, and, yeah, you know, how hard we're going from a sales motion perspective.

But, um, I do look at myself as a salesperson, and having that background in enterprise sales is, in my opinion, incredibly impactful for our business right now. I have, you know, two other trusted partners—one on the technical side and a marketing/design lead that is integral for our business from a front-end perspective and really from the development of the product.

But yeah, it’s a bit— you know, we strategize differently based off time of the month and quarter to make sure that we are hitting on specific milestones from a product development perspective, strategy and vision, and growth. And that’s kind of how we bucket our three sort of processes.

From a timing perspective, we do a lot of quarterly thinking and quarterly alignments, and that's how we think about our business—in sort of quarters—and strive towards goals every quarter.

Mike Pinkus: Yeah, we do something similar, because I got—like, if you look at things too frequently, you kind of get lost. There's a time for big-picture thinking and just getting stuff done. And as you're going through this, though, and getting product-market fit right now, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges you've experienced in the first two years of growing Lawbrokr?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah. Um, couple of things—you know, lean and mean, like scalability issues, right? As every startup, you're going to have scalability issues, you're going to have lack of capital. You're either going to be bootstrapped or getting investors on board, but, you know, you have to remain as lean as possible in the early days to continue your runway. As you guys know from a bookkeeping/accounting perspective, you have to be super cost-conscious and make sure that you can scale out the business appropriately and not, you know, completely throw funds in a way that might not make sense in the short-term perspective.

So those are—I mean, running lean is incredibly challenging in general. I just told you about five to six different functions that I have to focus on day in and day out, and it’s not easy to do that. And that’s what happens when you’re, you know, a three- to five-person team in the early days.

I’d say that’s a major challenge.

The second challenge, which is just inevitable in the business and niche that we’re in is—and I alluded to it before—education of the market. It’s not a prevalent issue that every law firm is thinking about day in and day out. And the reason for that is all these law firms, they go to law school to become a lawyer, and then within the, you know, small business of law, typically the rainmaker becomes managing partner who then has to make the decision, run the law firm, and practice law.

And the challenge with that is they’re not thinking holistically about marketing strategy, growth of their business, or anything in between. They’re thinking, “How do we get more referrals? How do I manage the business? And how do I get files out as quick as possible so that we can continue to bill?”

And there is an education piece to our business, which is: How do you activate a new channel of growth for your business, which is your digital asset? And, you know, to a law firm, they think their digital asset is their website. But to me, their digital asset is data analytics, understanding how consumers are interacting with them digitally, understanding if it’s a good and right-fit client so that they can prioritize their time properly, and so forth.

So when you think about the marketing operating system of a law firm, that’s not something that’s necessarily top of mind. And there’s this educational piece that is an inherent challenge that you have to go out there and focus on.

Mike Pinkus: How are you solving that educational challenge? Like, you're helping with the marketing lead attribution for law firms, but how are you doing it for Lawbrokr? Because like you said, it's a major challenge to educate your customer base on just understanding your product—the fact that it’s even a problem that they need to solve. Like you said, they’re focused on billable hours and not so much about lead generation. So how are you educating them right now?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah. Um, in the early days, it was a lot of conversations, a lot of “no’s,” and a lot of like, “Hey, we don’t have an issue right now.” And then we got a little smarter and recognized—you know, when we talk about ICP—we started to focus on: there’s for sure law firms out there in the 10- to 50-person range that have internal marketers, internal BD staff, firm administrators that act like operations teams.

And what we started to do was not talk to the lawyers themselves, but the actual staff within. Find that champion who has that pain point, that they understand each and every day, and have them sell that within the law firm on our behalf. Whether they have budget for that or not is sort of on them to determine. But for us, it’s about building out that ROI story and hitting the pain points of the actual persona inside of the firm that’s struggling with that pain point.

So for us, we started moving upmarket a little bit and, you know, letting the smaller end of the market come to us. We still don’t get a ton of inbound, but when it does come, it’s valuable 'cause they’re the ones that are trying to differentiate themselves against a midsize firm, right? So they understand that they need something that can support their growth.

And then as you go into that mid-market space, you start to actually have a persona in the seat that feels the pain point versus the lawyer directly.

Mike Pinkus: And maybe that’s part of the fun point of scaling—is that experimentation. Like, when did you discover that that 10- to 50-size law firm—you’re like, “You know what, why are we trying to maybe sell it first?” They’re probably all potential customers. But, um, when did you realize that? You’re like, “You know what, this is hitting better with companies where they have an individual internal employee that’s like dedicated to this.” How did you discover that? Was it just through outbound, like calling these companies?

Daniel Steinberg: I think it was more—we knew it early on. But to bring on a 10- to 50-person law firm when you have, let's call it, zero customers is almost impossible, right?

So I think what tended to happen is our evolution of our product started as a prequalification software for solo and small practitioners. Those were the easier wins for us. We brought them on board, probably for a lower ACV than we should have, but we brought them on board to understand what problems we started to solve for them. And then we realized we had this other pain point that we were solving for, which was this broken web experience. And we started focusing on web traffic conversion, and we built out three to five different ROI metrics that ultimately we could then go to larger law firms with and start showcasing this pain point to.

So I think the evolution of our product and bringing on customers early and often was important—and, you know, then scaling up from there. I think it’s sometimes hard to start in a mid-market framework when you're not sure what issue you're solving for.

And that comes back to your point, which is there's always experimentation, right? Our customers use our product in so many different ways that we don't even know. We just had a customer literally build a deck for internal buy-in purposes that we were like, “Whoa, thanks for sending this to us,” and made a YouTube video about why Lawbrokr is so imperative for their business—because we're going to save them wages on employee salaries and reduce downtime and lag time, and all these things that we didn't recognize, because we're not a law firm and we weren't law firm operators, right?

So I think, like, every time you bring on a new customer, they find a different way to leverage the system that you didn’t necessarily think you built it for, which is phenomenal, right? And you start to evolve from there.

Mike Pinkus: Yeah, it’s funny that a lot of the conversations I’ve been having with entrepreneurs—they talk about how they talk to their customers all the time, and they’re learning and learning and learning. And a lot of new features—sometimes pivots—come out of that. And you keep discovering these things that you didn’t know about. And, uh, so it’s interesting that you’re continuing to discover those things as you have these conversations.

And Daniel, not to bounce around here, but I want to go back to the point where you said that you’re doing a lot, you’re hustling, there’s a lot going on, and obviously early stages in the business—capital is always going to be tight, because it takes a while to get, like, perfect product-market fit.

How have you capitalized the business? Have you raised funding? Have you dealt with banks? What have you done up until now to just get going and scale the company?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, so when we first started this company in October of ’21, we actually started as a marketplace. So we don’t have to talk about that pivot—and we don’t need to go deeper than that—but that’s where we started, and that’s super capital-intensive.

And we did do a friends-and-family round of $785,000 to really help scale out that portion of what our business was at that time, in order to generate lead gen. And that was sort of our first initial understanding of how to be lean and scale our capital as far as we can.

We went into a, you know, down market—capital wasn’t easy to come by thereafter—and to do a marketplace properly, you probably need $10 million-plus to scale out accordingly. And we recognized right then and there that we needed a better business model to scale out our business through a downturn.

And yes, you know, legal is somewhat recession-proof, but for us we were a lead gen service, and that wasn’t going to scale properly. So we pivoted our business and we did a $200,000 bridge round to be able to bring this product we’ve been talking about to market.

And we’ve sort of used that cash in conjunction with our revenue to continue to fund and scale the business from there. And we’ll hopefully be now looking at, you know, a further venture round in the near-term future to help really expedite growth and pour some fuel on the fire and scale out in a couple of different ways to really hone in on our vision—to be that marketing operating system for a law firm.

Mike Pinkus: Yeah, that’s amazing. And hopefully a bunch of VCs see our conversation right now, because part of our network is people that are funding companies, and I think Lawbrokr’s solving a major problem that exists right now. And if you talk to any lawyer that’s not part of that Sister Seven right now, the markets are definitely more challenging than they have been in the past.

Are you hearing that from customers—that the macro environment, they’re feeling just the hyperinflation, the fact that there’s labor shortages, there’s just more challenges in the air? Have you noticed that in the conversations you’ve been having?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, I think, like, the inherent challenge that a law firm naturally always has is, like, how do we continue to grow and build our business in a magnitude of different ways? And how do we get good employees outside of just attorneys and things of that nature? So it is—like, yes, you hear it, but like I mentioned, the nice part for a law firm—and legal in specific—is it is recession-proof. There are always going to be legal issues that need to be solved.

And, you know, for us, we’re not necessarily dealing with the corporate law firms of the world. We’re dealing with the personal injuries, the criminal defenses, the wills and estates, real estate, the family laws, etc., of the world that are going to happen no matter what. Especially, like, a large portion of our market is in the United States. And naturally, there seems to be completely different mindsets when it comes to legal issues out there—far and away beyond, you know, the Canadian market, so I can’t speak to that as much. But yeah, I think there’s inherent challenges with any business, no matter what market you’re in, based off sort of the economic constraints that we’re in right now.

Mike Pinkus: And Daniel, going back to your point about just Clio—your career prior to Lawbrokr—not a lot of entrepreneurs have the privilege of looking at what a scaled-out entity would look like, where you can reverse-engineer those learnings into your own business. You happened to be in a position where you were working in a legal tech company that was really, really scaled out, meaning you now know what it looks like in a large organization that’s already hit product-market fit and scaled out.

So have you taken a lot of those learnings into building—like, you can now design Lawbrokr from the ground up to reflect what you have an idea of what the future looks like? What are some of those learnings, and have you taken learnings from Clio or other past positions you’ve had?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, I think it’s a blessing and a curse to come from, like, a really established business and then start building your own—especially for someone like me who's on the corporate side, or business side, excuse me, and sees the technology and the tools and the operating processes in place at these businesses.

One of the biggest challenges when you start a company is that you physically just don’t have the luxury of having that. I’ve had the luxury of having the nicest built-out Salesforce instances in the world, because of, you know, my past experiences and things like that. And I probably tested out 15 different free CRMs when I started Lawbrokr and ended up on Salesforce and realized—it’s, you know, not the best tool if it’s not built out the exact way that you need it, and things like that.

So I think it’s a blessing and a curse. I think sometimes what it does in your head is it makes you overanalyze the things that you need in place at your business, where naturally no business can start that way. You need to evolve from there, and you need to break things before things can get better and scale out properly—which is, you know, how our conversations initially started.

And, you know, I likely am using the wrong accounting tools or the poor automation within that. And that’s just a factor of—you don’t have people in place that understand every nuance of every function within an organization. I have to be a product manager, a marketer, a team manager, a product developer, HR, and everything in between—the accountant, etc.—that naturally you can’t… you’re not going to be good at all those things. I mean, I come from a sales background and I’m average at sales because I can’t put 100% of my attention to it.

So I think it’s a blessing and a curse. I think that it at least helps you analyze where you need to go, but sometimes you have to remember that you can’t get there from the start.

Mike Pinkus: Yeah, and being a blessing and a curse, I think once you cross certain inflection points, that’s where the blessing starts kicking in. Because like you said, you’ve adapted to be scrappy in these early days. But I’m sure as you cross inflection points, you’re like, “I remember exactly what this looks like,” and “Oh no, we’ve got to be more systemized as we grow through here to here to here.”

Do you see that Horizon Three and Four? We were just speaking to Alex Baker a week ago from Relay Ventures, and he talks about how they invest in seed-stage and early-stage businesses, and he always commented on how entrepreneurs need to be thinking about Horizon Three and Four.

And since you’ve been there, Daniel, do you think about that at all? Or is your core focus right now just get customers in the door, get product-market fit, and then I’ll think about Horizon Three and Four of what this looks like?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, I—I think we definitely think about those future state scenarios because you have to build for scale—not just on the product side, but on the holistic operating processes side. And I think it's not every function of your business that you're necessarily thinking about each and every day for Horizons Three and Four, but you have little milestones that get 1% better each day, each quarter, each month, that help you get to that phase of what you're referring to as—or, you know, what Alex referred to as—Horizon Three and Four.

At the end of the day, you have to build for scalability across the organization. I think product scalability is probably our number one metric as we continue to bring on more firms, more sophisticated firms, and larger entities. But internal processes, when it comes to how do you operate a business better, I think we think about that each day. And, you know, you have to pick and choose your battles on what makes sense for this portion of the business and then future state of the business—and at least know what that looks like or have an idea of it.

But I think as you fall into the camp of, you know, the Relays of the world and having operating partners like Alex Baker—those individual investors or, excuse me, venture partners—allow, you know, provide you the knowledge set to be able to get to that next phase. And I think that's really important about finding who that partner is, because, like I mentioned, you know, as a first-time founder and first-time operator and so forth, you're not going to know every little nuance—even though you come from a really well-established company in the past. It’s been built prior to you, it’s been built after you, and they’re always iterating—and you're not overseeing every single team there as well.

Mike Pinkus: Yeah, that's an excellent point. And that experience is definitely invaluable, right? Because a lot of the—venture, not just venture world—but a lot of investors in general are just used to seeing things from 30,000 feet. And when you're in the weeds with a million hats on, it's sometimes hard to zoom out and see the things that they might see in an instant, right? And that’s why those relationships are more than money, like you said.

Final question, Daniel, ‘cause I know we’re running out of time here, but I wanted to ask you—any advice you’d give not only to new entrepreneurs but entrepreneurs that are currently scaling out their businesses? What have you learned through your experience so far with Lawbrokr, and any advice you could give to people?

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, I think just, like, stay in your lane. I think there’s a lot of noise and there’s a lot of “no’s,” and there’s a lot of, um, external pressures that really can overwhelm you and make you think differently and shape what you’re trying to do. And I think just being able to stay in your lane and focus on what you are focused on doing and building—and using your customers as that springboard, rather than those around you that are making that noise—is incredibly helpful for scaling and sustaining your business and building the right way versus, you know, the extended ways that could exist.

And there’s a lot of people that can take you and steer you in different directions and provide advice and guidance, and no one’s going to know what’s right. I don’t think there’s a linear path to entrepreneurship.

I think I might—I think I told you this at the beginning of the call before we were even jumping into this—but I love, you know, failing by doing. I think that’s the best lesson learned. And failures don’t have to be, like, mass failures. They can be, you know, little, little things within the business that you learn and iterate on just by doing and implementing. And sometimes that’s the best lessons and the best way that you can ultimately build and scale your own business—because your business looks a lot different than Lawbrokr, and a larger entity than that looks even more different than mine, and so forth.

So, you know, you can take as much feedback and advice as you can possibly gather, but you have to do what’s best for what you think is best for your business.

Mike Pinkus: That's great advice. And before I thank you, I just want to also say that—look, Lawbrokr solves obviously a huge problem for professional services firms. And I think at the stage of company that you go after, there’s a lot of things that companies could use help with—and you drive leads, you drive revenue—and so there’s a profit motivation of why you would spend on technology that helps you increase revenue, helps you improve the business.

And like I said, I think that the firms that are outside that Sister Seven framework need a lot more help in terms of driving lead flow. And so I think you’re solving a huge problem, Daniel, and I wanted to thank you so much for not only sharing your story and lessons, but for just taking half an hour out of your day to join me today.

Daniel Steinberg: Yeah, thanks. This was fun, Mike. And yeah, always happy to continue the conversation offline with anyone that, you know, wants to learn more and, you know, have advice. If you are, you know, an upcoming entrepreneur or want to just, you know, grab a coffee and chat, I would love to. So thanks for having me. It's been a lot of fun.

Mike Pinkus: Thanks so much, Daniel. And I'm gonna link all this after so people can find out about Lawbrokr. But thanks again, Daniel.

Daniel Steinberg: Perfect. Thanks.

Mike Pinkus: That was Daniel Steinberg, founder and CEO of Lawbrokr. During the conversation with Daniel, I felt he shared three really important lessons.

Number one: Recognizing when something doesn't feel right and investigating whether you need to make a change or pivot. Daniel shared the story of how they started off as a marketplace but later decided to pivot when it became evident that a marketplace would require way more time and capital than initially anticipated.

Number two: You have to figure out who you are selling to. Daniel explained how they adjusted their ICP to go after firms with 10 to 50 people because they had operational team members that were closer to the action than the lawyers. These individuals were more likely to understand the value the software would bring to their firm.

Number three: Stay in your lane. Daniel elaborated to say that your customers should be the voice of reason, and you have to block out all other noise. If you're listening to outside parties who are not your customers, you might end up moving in the wrong direction.

That's it for today. As always, keep scaling up and breaking barriers.