Unveiling Empowerment

Mike Pinkus: Over the last 10 years at ConnectCPA, we've had the privilege of witnessing the incredible journeys of over a thousand businesses. We've been there for the thrilling highs and daunting lows of entrepreneurship. We've celebrated wild successes and monumental exits, and we've also stood by businesses as they've navigated the stormy seas facing Roblox and challenges that every entrepreneur encounters in their day-to-day grind. Join us as we dive deep into the stories of these resilient individuals who dared to dream, who persevered, and who were a testament to the power of entrepreneurship. This is their journey, their lessons, and their triumphs. Welcome to GrowthTales. I'm your host, Mike Pinkus, co-founder of ConnectCPA.

Today's guest is Catherine Choi, the founder of SoYoung. SoYoung's claim to fame is that Catherine developed an elevated line of lunch bags, backpacks, and more. These are not your everyday bags. It was Catherine's vision to reimagine quality and design elements of everyday items that has led to the company's growth and brand recognition.

In this episode, Catherine and I discuss her trip to Ecuador where she scaled Cotopaxi, which has a summit of 20,000 feet. She also discussed overcoming major personal challenges, including drug addiction and how difficult life events are what shape an entrepreneur and build resilience. I really enjoyed my conversation with Catherine, and I hope you do as well.

Hi, Catherine. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Catherine Choi: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Mike Pinkus: Yeah, I really appreciate it. I know we've known each other a long time, and I'm a big admirer of what you've built at SoYoung, and I've always wanted to have this conversation with you, so I'm really excited to have you here today.

Catherine Choi: Well, thank you. Yeah, it's been a long time. I feel like we kind of started around the same time. It seems like maybe me a little bit longer.

Mike Pinkus: Yep. Yeah. Well, I remember, I actually remember those early days. I know we were talking off camera before we jumped on, but the old FreshBooks building, and I remember visiting you in the early, early days of the business. And you've had quite the journey since those days. Yep. And I guess I would just want to start off by, before we jump into the business side, Catherine, you shared that you were going on an amazing trip. You were climbing a volcano. I want to just ask you, how was the trip? Was it life changing? How was it? And maybe tell me a little bit about it.

Catherine Choi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a great segue because it actually was related to my business in the sense that, you know, I never had aspirations to climb anything. You know, I read a book about—that book Into Thin Air with Jon Krakauer—where he describes this really incredibly challenging journey that he had. And I remember reading it going, why would anyone ever want to do something like that, right? And, you know, basically I signed up to climb Cotopaxi Volcano in Ecuador, which is a 20,000-foot elevation volcano. And at the time when I signed up for it, I think I had this moment where I suspended disbelief when I signed up, because really the reason I signed up was the group that was going on this trip, the person running it...

Catherine Choi: He is an entrepreneur himself, and he runs challenging, adventurous journeys to help entrepreneurs gain clarity in their business and alignment.

Wow.

And at the time, you know, I was going through a very challenging period in my business—which hasn't actually stopped—but, you know, everything he talked about with regards to this climb spoke to me, and I convinced myself that it wouldn't be so hard. Like, how hard can it be, you know, and that kind of thing. And I think there was this money-back guarantee at the bottom where it was like, "And if you don't get all of this, I will give you your money back," right? And I was like, wow, okay, well, I mean, why not? Let me sign up for this, right? And so I did. I signed up for it, but it was June when I signed up. The trip wasn't until February of this year. So there was a good long stretch, and I kind of forgot about it until November when the first emails came out, and they were like, "It's time to start training. You have to take this training seriously because this is no joke," right?

And totally, you know, "You're gonna be doing some high altitude breathwork and this is your physical training schedule," and like, "Get to work," right? And I thought, wait a second—what did I sign up for exactly? Right? And I kind of did some Google searches of people's experiences or YouTube searches of people who climbed this thing, hoping to come across testimonials of people saying, "Yeah, you know, it was challenging, but it was doable," and whatever. And instead, I found the opposite, right?

Catherine Choi: And so I basically went through this like, holy—what did I do? And I'd paid for the whole thing—no refunds, you know? And so I basically decided that I was gonna just show up and do what I needed to do. And it was such an amazing process for me, because leading up to the climb for three months, I got into everything that I needed to do to physically prepare, but I still didn't believe that I was actually gonna summit, right? Because I just kept hearing about how hard it was and how few people can actually do it and blah, blah, blah. And I thought, I don't even care that much about summiting, right?

Mm-hmm.

I just did this because I wanted to join this group, right? But in actual fact, when it came right down to it, part of me did really care about summiting, right?

Catherine Choi: And I think that part of me is the part of me that I went there to really get in touch with, right? And it's the part of me that was always kind of quashed, because I wasn't really encouraged, you know, to find my competitive spirit, right? And basically, climbing that volcano was kind of this culmination of this journey I've been on for many, many years to understand the power that I have within me. And I don't mean that from an egotistical standpoint. I mean, like, we have access to just so much more power within ourselves than we realize, and you can't access it until you're face to face with it, right? Mm-hmm.

And, you know, the body preparations were really important. Like, physically, if I had gotten altitude sickness on the volcano, or if I hurt myself, I wouldn't have been able to continue. But, you know, barring that, what got me up that volcano was being confronted with this sense of just like, every moment of, "This is so hard," right? This is so incredibly hard. Every step was like, you know, you're out of breath, and your body's tired and everything. And yet, like, overcoming that thing that you're going through and staying present to, like, "But in this moment, I can take another step, and in this moment, I can take another breath." And just really staying with that and staying with like, "I am fine. I am fine."

And there was this thing that we all as a group said to each other that we would say as we were climbing. And it was like, "Catherine"—like, you say it in third person—"Catherine is fine. This is fine. Everything is fine. Just keep moving," right? And like, you know, and basically that would make—

Mike Pinkus: Me paranoid.

Catherine Choi: So that got me up the volcano, right? Step by step by step. And, you know, I didn't actually believe I was gonna summit until about an hour... So the summit—we started at midnight, and we summited at 8:00 AM—and until about 7:00 AM, I really felt like I wanted to turn around for the whole time. My mind was like, "I want to turn around." And I was tied to my partner, so we were roped together, we had crampons, there was a guide. And in my head, I was like, "I don't want to be the one to say that I'm turning around." So, you know, I just kept going. But had she at any point up until the seventh hour said, "Let's turn around," I would've been like, "Yeah, let's go," right?

But at the seventh hour, something shifted in me. And we were dead last in the group that was climbing. And, you know, a number of people had turned around, right? And so the group that summited—they were on their way down as we were still going up. And seeing them, and seeing that they had this energy that was just so victorious, right? And also, they were so surprised to see that we were still going, because I think I had pegged myself as least likely to summit, because I was always very vocal about being scared and tired and, "I don’t know if I can do this," and all this stuff.

And so when we saw each other and passed each other on the volcano, I had this moment of just like, "Wow, I'm actually gonna do this." Like, I got in touch with that. And from there, it was actually very... like, things just really speeded up, right? Like suddenly, I had my own guide because one of the ones coming down now had the capacity to take me up by himself. And then, you know...

Mike Pinkus: Mm-hmm.

Catherine Choi: My partner had her guide. And so he started scampering up the volcano and, you know, it was another hour still. But when I got to the summit, that sense of like, "I can't believe I did this. How did I do this?" Like, I never thought I was gonna be able to do it. And that feeling has been something that I've been able to translate coming home into an understanding of, "If I can do that hard thing, I can do this hard thing," right?

And, you know, I am an avid meditator. I think you are as well, right?

Mike Pinkus: Yeah. I'm not very good at it, but yeah, I try.

Catherine Choi: Well, I can tell you that I've been meditating for years consistently. And one of the challenges for me with meditation has been I can experience this beautiful, expanded state fairly easily during meditation, but I have yet to be able to bring that into my waking life, right? Mm-hmm. And that's one of the things where I've been like, you know, how do I access this, right? And interestingly, the volcano climb has allowed me to access that much more easily than meditation did, right?

And so to kind of bring it home, right—like the promise of the clarity that was talked about when I signed up—I didn't actually expect that it was gonna work, but it did, in actual fact. Because, you know, I came back and I had a very clear sense of what is it about my business that I love, that still brings me excitement, that I still want to continue to push forward, right?

Catherine Choi: And what parts of the business no longer serve me? Like, it's an old version of me that I was kind of hanging onto, right? That I felt like—I think the last few years just have been so challenging, right? That it's like, take all the business, right? Mm-hmm. Like, let's just get it back to where it was. And what shifted for me was actually—no, it's not about getting it back. It's about a new vision, right? And so that, I think, has been a huge realization and direction for me since coming back from the volcano climb.

Mike Pinkus: Sounds like an incredible trip. I was gonna ask you—did you bring oxygen up with you guys?

Catherine Choi: No, no. There was... we had to do high-altitude oxygen training, which was some really challenging breathwork. I mean, I have done breathwork in the past—I've done Wim Hof breathwork and all kinds—this breathwork was like next level, and I hated it. Like, I really hated it. But mm-hmm, you know, I did it because I was like, I can hate it now, or I can be up on that volcano not being able to breathe, right? And I had no idea whether it actually helped, but I had no issues with altitude. So yeah, I...

Mike Pinkus: Wow.

Catherine Choi: ...believe that it did help. Yeah.

Mike Pinkus: So you had your breath the whole... like, you never were struggling with oxygen? You said it's 20,000 feet?

Catherine Choi: Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Pinkus: Wow.

Catherine Choi: Yeah, I mean, we were there for the week to acclimate, right? But yes. Mm-hmm. I mean, it is pretty high, but yeah, I didn't feel... the altitude was the least of my worries, actually.

Mike Pinkus: How long did it take to get up the mountain? Like, when you say—like, you mentioned like mentally you could see the whole group at one point or another. You could see it in their eyes—if you looked to the left or right—like, "You might quit, yeah, I might quit." Like, everyone's kind of like seeing who's gonna stop first, right? Right. How long was the actual trip itself? Like, are there breaks where you go to different sections and...

Catherine Choi: Kind of stop? No, you do one go. So basically, it takes six to eight hours to summit, and then half that time to come down. So we started climbing in the dark at midnight, without having slept. Right? So you basically are staying up all night to climb this volcano. I mean, you try and sleep beforehand, but I couldn't sleep. I was... it was just like, I was so anxious, right?

So yeah, you're basically doing it in one go. The idea is that you have to summit at sunrise because you're so close to the equator that if you are climbing while it's full sun, it's not safe.

Mike Pinkus: Too hot.

Catherine Choi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a glacier, right? So things are melting and there are crevasses. I didn't actually quite understand how dangerous it was until I was up there. I was like, "Nobody told me about this." And, to be fair, I don't think they really knew. Like, the organizer—it was his first time climbing too. I mean, it was dangerous, but we were all safe, you know? Mm-hmm.

But yeah, it was very, very steep. The whole thing was very steep. But there were parts that were so steep that you could only climb it on your hands and knees. And yeah, like every time we asked our guide, "Does it get easier?" and he'd be like, "No." You know, it just was like an uphill—like climbing a treadmill at the highest incline, and even higher, for eight hours straight.

Mike Pinkus: Oh, right. Oh my God.

Catherine Choi: With a pack on your back, right? So that's kind of what it was like, and that's how hard... like, you just have to keep going and have to keep going, right?

So yeah. But at the same time—while I would not rush to do that again—and now that it's over, I can say this: it was one of the best experiences of my life. Like, I think back on it and I'm like, wow, you know, I got so much out of that experience, much more so than, you know, going and sitting on a beach for a week, you know? Which I would say I don't get anything out of that, really. So yeah, there's a lot to be said about doing hard things, you know.

And if we want to kind of parallel that to business, my experience with entrepreneurship has been about continuously stepping into the hard things and the unknown and the challenges. And this is really just kind of the most recent last leg of it, you know.

Mike Pinkus: That's an incredible story because, to your point, entrepreneurship is definitely hard. And going through this podcast and speaking to so many CEOs of companies—everybody's challenges are unique, but yet they have a lot of similarities that I've heard over these last few months since we started this entire journey with the podcast.

And Catherine, one thing I wanted to, I guess, go back on is—for SoYoung, you've achieved a lot of things. And I do want to ask you about your origin story a little bit. Like, we don't need to go into crazy depth on the origin story, but you've achieved a lot of big things. And you said you've been doing a lot of hard things for a long time.

And some of those things—for people that haven't seen SoYoung before—you got on live TV on Dragons' Den, which is obviously a separate story, but a very difficult thing to do and a nerve-wracking thing to put yourself in front of the world to tell your story as a business owner.

Why don't we just jump to the origin story really quick—about what SoYoung does and that initial building of the business—because your trip, I want people to understand where these... like, obviously all business is hard, but how it applies to the fact that you have built a really great company over these years. And I want to pass it over to you to maybe just tell us a little bit about SoYoung and how you got started.

Catherine Choi: Sure. So, you know, the story really starts with motherhood. And when I became a new mother—my oldest son is 20 now—even though the business didn't start right at that point, the idea for the business came when he was a baby. And I have kind of that classic mom entrepreneur story where I saw a gap in the market for a product that I thought the world needed.

And I have no background in anything related to... it was a—the initial product was a diaper bag, which we eventually got out of diaper bags—but it was much more than that. It wasn’t just, “I want to create this product and bring it out into the world.” There was this kind of subtext to the story that I didn’t share as part of our brand story until much later. And it was this personal desire to overcome this lifelong sense of inadequacy, right? And lack, low self-esteem. And I know that’s a very universal story for a lot of people.

Catherine Choi: And for me, what I wanted to prove to myself was that I would not give up on myself with this idea that I was excited about, you know? So I had this idea for this business and no idea how to actually make it happen. But I had promised myself that I was not gonna listen to that voice in the back of my head that kept saying, “You can’t do this. What are you—this is crazy. You’ll never be able to do this.” That voice, right?

And I thought, I am just going to take small steps. I'm just gonna do the next thing related to this. And so I kind of made a promise to myself that I would just keep taking the next steps without worrying about how I was gonna get to... whatever. The big picture didn’t matter, right? I mean, it did in the sense that I would love to—you know, I had this vision of being on Oprah and being with her as, you know, the success story or whatever. But on a day-to-day basis, what I just focused on was what was in front of me, right?

And interestingly, over the years, it was very, very slow growth. I had my first two kids really close together, and so this really just happened during nap times and stuff. And what was really interesting was that it kept going—even though it felt like a house of cards—that I could basically look back and kind of go, “Wow, I’m still doing this.”

Catherine Choi: And I eventually got to a point where I was able to look at where I was and see that I had achieved many things that I never thought I could do, right? And yet at the same time, there was always that next thing or the next things where I was like, “I don’t know how anyone does that. I just don’t think I’ll be able to do that thing.” Right? And then I would do that thing.

And so, as the business continued to grow—there was slow, slow growth—but it still felt very much like everything could fall apart very quickly. And there were challenges from the very beginning. I still had that sense of inadequacy, but I realized that I wasn’t the same person when I looked back to who I was when I started and who I was at that point. I was like, “I have changed,” right?

Because I no longer felt that I couldn’t be seen as a leader or a boss. I had certain capabilities that I developed, and basically, I realized that I was stepping into a new version of myself by doing those. Every little challenge that came my way was actually a process of transformation for me, right?

And, you know, if I want to call healing—like, transformation—another word, it's healing, right? And this healing of this sense of inadequacy. And that was really interesting to me. Like, I’ve always been very attuned to personal development, right? And I think there was a part of me that felt like, “How do people change? How does anyone ever change?” Right?

And I think that this is how you change—by doing the things that you don’t think you can do. And by doing the hard things. Right?

Catherine Choi: And I started to want to share that story. So basically, as we're talking over the span of... so like, you know, I had my business that initially launched as a diaper bag company and then kind of shifted into beautiful lunch boxes and backpacks for kids made out of linen, right? And it kind of followed the trajectory of my kids growing up, right?

And eventually we moved into women's lifestyle—like women's lunch bags and backpacks. And as that was happening, I started to see that there was so much that I wanted to share, and I didn't know how, right? I didn't know how to share this part—the kind of secret story of SoYoung, right? Of what I was fascinated by. And then what happened was that we got knocked off by a big brand.

Catherine Choi: One of our products got knocked off by Kate Spade, the brand. And I remember thinking like, wow. They took one of our products and they used the same shape, they used the same look—which we were using linen, and we were the only ones using linen. They created a linen-like lunch bag, and they put their own prints on it and stuff. And it wasn't because I... you know, everyone copies everyone, right? But at the time, what it forced me to do was it forced me to ask myself, “Why would any consumer choose SoYoung over Kate Spade?” Right?

And objectively, when we looked at the website and how we were showing up in the world, there really was very little that would have a consumer go, “Oh, I love SoYoung,” right? Because you might love our photography, or you might love one of the prints—but that's not what makes a consumer resonate with a brand, right?

Catherine Choi: What resonates with people is an emotional resonance, where you feel like, “I feel connected.” And suddenly it all made sense to me, like, I know how to create emotional resonance and I want to do it anyway, because I want to tell the story of SoYoung. And where I decided to start was with my own personal story, which really began when I got clean from a heroin addiction.

And that was... now it's almost 27 years ago. When I shared this story, that was like five or six years ago now. So I was almost 20 years clean from a heroin addiction. That, for me, was what started me on the path of healing. Right?

Catherine Choi: And, you know, I have—I’ve written the entire story of how somebody like me became a heroin addict, and the story of what I actually considered to be an act of grace that saved me, right? And I believe that I was gifted this experience of grace where, you know, the desire to use drugs—for me, when I was in my active addiction—was really lifted for me in an experience over a couple of days. And I never really understood how incredible that was until I entered recovery, right?

And I entered kind of the whole world of going to 12-step meetings and going to treatment and being immersed in a community of people who were trying to get clean and seeing that so many people were struggling, and so many people were relapsing.

Catherine Choi: And I was kind of like, “How come I'm not struggling? How come I'm not feeling that?” Right? And I always felt like this was a gift, and I don’t know why it was given to me—until fast forward, you know, more than 10 years later when I decided to share this story of recovery in my business.

And the reason I decided to share it was because I really wanted to take off the mask. I really wanted people to understand that everyone has stories, right? Everyone has a past. And maybe not as dramatic as mine, right? But that we never know who we’re talking to—where they came from, what their experience was like, what shaped them, right?

And I know that that experience of recovery for me was kind of like, in a way—because I survived it and I... you know, my addiction was also a turning point in my life where I was able to tap into my own power.

Catherine Choi: Like, the choices that I make in my life—I made poor choices in becoming an addict, right? And understanding that the choices we make in our life are really foundational to how our life turns out, right?

And so, I really felt like if I share who I am and where I came from, then I want people to know that this is me. Like, I don’t have anything to hide, right? And what was really amazing was that it was a scary thing to do. Mind you, it was kind of like, “Is this crazy?” Like, we're a lunchbox company for kids, and here I am sharing my story of recovering from heroin addiction publicly. And quite honestly, this was before there was this huge wave of authenticity and telling stories. That wasn’t why I did it. It was really like, “I just feel like I need to do this,” right?

Catherine Choi: And when I did share it, what happened was people started sharing their stories with me. And they started sharing them publicly—like on our social media. When we posted my story on the website and on social, people in the comments were sharing things about themselves. And some of those people were people that I knew and had known for years, but I didn’t know about the thing that they were sharing, right? Because nobody had ever given them permission to share it, right?

And so when that started to happen, for me, the sense of meaning and purpose and this exchange of connection was so much more meaningful than anything I had experienced just selling lunch bags, right? That it really gave me a deeper purpose for the brand.

Catherine Choi: And ultimately, that has been the—I guess—the direction of where... what excites me about this business. It's not just that we have these offerings of products that I feel like are beautiful and functional and basically allow people to take pride in the things that they carry.

Like if they’re packing their lunches—we reimagined the boring lunch bags for women, right? There are so many people who are very careful or particular about how they eat, and they see it as an act of self-care, including myself, right? I pack my lunch all the time because it’s important to me, and it's important to how I want to nourish myself and take time for myself.

And it’s those habits that actually form the foundation of who we are, right? And so that’s what we try and convey through our products—that these are, or can be, the vehicles through which you live out your intentions.

So that’s the origin—I think I kind of went from origin to today—or not necessarily today, but to pretty much the present—of the story of SoYoung.

Mike Pinkus: Well, it's an amazing story, Catherine, and I was telling you before we jumped on—just, I have such admiration for the authenticity of sharing that with the world. Because, first of all, to your point, no one knows the stories that people go through in their life.

And I remember the first time that we met at that FreshBooks place, and you're so polished and so eloquent the way you speak, and you built this big business. And before we jumped on today, I went back and watched that Dragons' Den presentation. And like I said, you've achieved a lot and you've done a lot of hard things, as you mentioned—building a pretty big business and getting a Dragons' Den deal done, and going through the growth challenges of scaling a company.

And then after going through all this stuff—from, like you mentioned, overcoming drug addiction, going through building a business, which again is like glutton for punishment, doing the hardest things that you can ever sign up to do—and if that wasn't enough, you go and climb a volcano.

Maybe you secretly like really, really incredibly difficult challenges. Have you ever asked yourself, like, how do you keep ending up taking on such incredible challenges? Have you ever asked yourself that?

Catherine Choi: Well, you know, I think it's a story that I need to maybe shift the narrative. Like, yes—actually, you know, my favorite workouts are the kind where you feel like you're gonna die. Because I guess it just... I get energy from it. That sense of accomplishment is so—you know, it's kind of a high, right?

But I wouldn’t say that I’m a glutton for punishment. I certainly feel like, in order to fully engage with life, there’s gonna be stuff that’s hard, right? There’s no question. And there’s stuff that’s scary as well. And I think what’s happened is that I’ve become willing to experience it all, right? Because the opposite is that we shut down. It's gonna happen one way or the other.

Catherine Choi: Hard things happen. And when I am in a place of just surrender to what’s showing up and understanding that overall, I have faith—not necessarily that things are going to turn out exactly the way I want them to—I have faith that they’re going to turn out the way that they’re supposed to, right? And that actually, it's in favor one way or the other.

And, you know, this is taking ego out of it, right? Our ego wants us to be safe. We want to have all the things that we think we need to be happy, to be successful. When I started this journey of entrepreneurship, that’s what I thought success was, and that’s what I was going after. It was really that sense of like, “I feel like if I can scale this business or get it to a certain size, or if I can be featured on How I Built This podcast and tell that success story, then I will feel like I am worthy.”

Catherine Choi: And that has so changed. Not to say that there’s anything wrong with scaling and growing and being on that podcast—but the worthiness piece was never going to come unless I actually chose that for myself. I don’t need those things to feel worthy.

And I feel like navigating the hard things has actually taught me that. Because I haven’t gotten everything I wanted. I haven’t scaled the business to whatever. And yet, it has forced me to look deeper for what is the value that I’ve derived from this—from running this business. And so much of it is related to who I am today. And actually liking who I am and being proud of who I am, and understanding how resilient and powerful I am.

Catherine Choi: And those are things that I get to keep, you know?

So yeah, I think being an entrepreneur, for me—while being the hardest thing that I’ve done, and the volcano climb was also one of the hardest things I’ve ever done—I think that it really just mirrors life. It is really the vehicle that I’ve chosen to navigate life. But every life is... it's not just entrepreneurship. Every life has its challenges.

And it's just like, I’ve chosen this one. And if I chose a different one, there would still be hard things—just different hard. And at the same time, I think it’s also made me excited about life, instead of shutting down and closing myself off and trying to keep myself safe.

Mike Pinkus: Well, I think you've inspired a lot of people, Catherine. I've told you that before. And I think for people that listen to this, it will inspire them even more—knowing not only what you've overcome, but the fact that you've achieved so much in this business.

And I don't want to hold you too much longer, but I want to ask you one closing question, which goes back to your trip—mm-hmm—because it's the most recent thing you've gone through. What's inspiring you now in the business going forward? 'Cause it seems like a light switch has flipped in you after overcoming this 20,000-foot climb. And I see a renewed energy in you.

You don't have to get into specifics, I'm just curious—what are you excited about? Are you looking to dedicate yourself to the business right now? Growing? Where do you see the next little bit? What's next for Catherine?

Catherine Choi: You know, I really am excited about aligning my business in service of our community, right? Like, we sell products. And that is something that I love—I love the creative process, I love dreaming up products, and it is an outlet for me, right?

But it wouldn’t on its own be enough for me to keep going. The thing that excites me is building the community around them. To build the story. To tell this story that I shared with you so that other people can see themselves in the story, right? That they see that this is not just about me stepping into my empowerment—this is about you stepping into your empowerment. And you saying, “Yeah, I have this dream too. And it’s too scary for me, but I can take the next step.” And like, “If she did it, I could do it.”

And so that’s really the thing that wakes me up when I get up. That’s what I’m excited about. And that’s really where I want to focus my time and attention.

Mike Pinkus: Well, I’m excited for you and I’m going to be watching, Catherine, because I would never, ever bet against you. And I’m excited to see what you guys do at SoYoung, because I think you’ve always built great products, and I know you’ve always had an eye for design and marketing and the like.

But I think you have an incredible, bigger story to share, which I really appreciate—not only the authenticity, but the fact that you’re so open in everything that you’ve brought to the conversation today. I really appreciate it. I really admire it. And I’m excited to see what you guys do.

So I just wanted to thank you. I know I’ve eaten up a bunch of your day as a leader in a company, so I just want to thank you again, Catherine, for joining us in both sales—

Catherine Choi: Today. It's a pleasure. I absolutely love having these conversations. So thank you for inviting me.

Mike Pinkus: Thanks so much, Catherine.

Closing Thoughts

Mike Pinkus: That was Catherine Choi, the founder of SoYoung. Catherine shared some amazing stories and lessons with me during the conversation. There is one lesson that stood out beyond the rest: doing hard things builds resilience—as a person and an entrepreneur.

Catherine shared her most recent trip to Ecuador where she scaled a 20,000-foot volcano. She also dove into the past, where she shared some of her most intimate and difficult times in her life, and how she overcame a drug addiction. Scaling a business is always going to be challenging, but as Catherine shared, it is those that have been through the most difficult challenges in life that have the greatest resilience to push through when things get tough.

That’s it for today. As always, keep scaling up and breaking barriers.